Lilly is a frequent commenter on this blog. Her Wisconsin congregation has voted itself out of the ELCA and now she wonders where to find a church home. Her husband is excited to return to his UCC roots and has already joined the choir in a local UCC congregation. Lilly is still torn, and she and the minority that was ousted by their congregational vote are serious about starting an ELCA mission church.
Private emails from a lady in Florida report heavy-handed and unconstitutional behavior on the part of her pastor who is attempting to lead that congregation out. The first vote barely reached the 2/3 requirement, but there may be serious issues with the procedures and whether that vote will stand due to failure to adhere to constitutional requirements. In any case, she reports,
My husband and I have been attending a vibrant and welcoming Episcopal congregation and it has greatly restored our souls during this season of Lent.
In Elk River, Minnesota, a group of 100 former congregants of Central Lutheran, which has departed the ELCA, have been worshiping Sunday evenings using the facilities of a local Episcopal church. They will soon move to an elementary school in order to offer Sunday morning worship. This group has already received a charter from the Minneapolis Area Synod of the ELCA and has adopted the name “Elk River Lutheran Church”. Pastor Cynthia Ganzkow-Wold leads the worship services.
The story of Elk River Lutheran is reported in a local newspaper, the Star News, and has received extensive positive commentary on the Facebook group, “Lovin’ the Lutheran Church.” Here is a sampling of comments:
As a member of a divided congregation, I am encouraged – I hope that I will have the courage to do something similar if called upon.
I see this as one step backwards, TWO steps forward! Good for Elk River!
What a wonderful, heart-warming story. God bless as you continue to preach the love of God for all God’s children.
What say you? Are you a member of a conflicted congregation? Has your congregation voted to leave the ELCA or are votes pending? Please share your experience.
Our congregation has scheduled it’s first vote for April 25th. We have experienced no loss of members since last August, in fact, we have grown by 152 members in that time.
We turned this over to our laity (I am one of the pastors) There were three open forums and a ten person task force appointed of laity. Their recommendation to the board was unanimous in voting to leave.
Since the letter went out, we have had feedback of 10 persons, all asking for some clarification. Otherwise, the comments have all been supportive.
Our bishop is very gracious, and will not fight us.
Not all congregations exiting are conflicted.
Back in 2005, a new pastor was called to Ezekiel in River Falls WI. Within months the congregation experience scism. The new pastor turned out to be a Word Aloner, and began driving Ezekiel down the WA path.
With broken hearts, a bunch of people left Ezekiel, and in 2006 they formed Hope Lutheran Church in River Falls. http://hopelutheran-riverfalls.org/index.php/about/
Although the pastor of Ezekiel has not advocated for a split from the ELCA, the congregation has since adopted a resolution never to call a pastor in a same-gender relationship.
Hope Lutheran is doing well. They have called a pastor, and worship at the local Newman Center (Catholic ministries on the University campus). They currently have an excellent relationship with that organization, and at this time do not see a need to build.
Jeff don’t be so certain this is not painful for some in your congregation just because you hold the majority viewpoint. It’s very difficult for people to speak up against the majority – especially when the majority is claiming their viewpoint is the only true Christian and biblical POV.
Jeff, I think you are naive or you really have your congregation eating out of your hand. When the vote comes it isn’t likely to be 100 % . If it is, something is fishy. What happened here was that the dissidents didn’t say much until after the first vote. If you have explained that this is really about the benevolences paid to ELCA and not just about the gays, this will make more people favor the vote. I think that I would have gone along with the vote if it hadn’t all been based on the gay bashing. The pastor was saying “authority of scripture”, but the money thing makes more sense to me after reading the annual report of the congregation.
Lilly, I never stated it would be 100 %. I fully expect a few no votes. What i am saying is that we turned it over to the laity, and they made the decisions. Don’t accuse me of somehow controlling the process, when going on our website you can see how open and transperant the process has been ,with multiple open forums and input from the congregation as well as a task force that took almost three months to make decisions. We also had a five month cooling off period.
And we have not bashed gays, either. Your parish is not mine, nor vice versa.
Joelle,
Yes, I am sure there are a few who will vote no. I was stating we don’t have major conflict and have not lost any membership. In addtion, it seems that those who don’t favor the new direction of the ELCA are not the only ones saying their view is the only biblical one.
I doubt this will get published on the blog, but I sat at a lunch table at CWA after the vote with people who said to my face “now that we have won, we need to purge the ELCA of closed minded people”.
Not all , or even many, of those who favored the changes think that way, but the fact some do indicate that moderate or conservative folk who opposed the changes don’t have a corner on self-righteousness.
Jeff,
Why does bad behavior from people who supported the CWA sexuality decisions excuse bad behavior from people who oppose the changes?
Ann, it doesn’t. Both are bad, and I have said as much on other posts. Neither those who call all who dissent from the changes bigots nor those who opposed them who use words like heretics or evil are correct.
It is the vast majority in the middle, dealing with the fallout of post-CWA, who don’t name call or speak ill of others that need to speak even more loudly than the extremists of both sides. My point to Joelle was that it is not only traditionalists who say they are speaking biblically or with a true “Christian” voice (whatever that means), but many are claiming that on both sides.
Jeff if there was someone who was trying to say that there was no conflict in his congregation over the issue and he/she was on the other side I would say something as well. But I have seen how painful it is and how difficult it is for people who agree with the CWA decision in a congregation where people are saying truly hateful things not only about gay people but about anyone who voted for the ministry recommendations. They are very much afraid to say anything outloud about their point of view, feel very unwelcome even though they have been faithful members for years. Those people are in your congregation and just because they don’t get up and say anything doesn’t mean they are not. They may not even come to vote because they feel like there’s no point.
That is interesting, Jeff. It is easy to get defensive about a few words in print. I like the way one pastor is selling LCMC in our area. She is making the point that if the churches she serves were choosing a new church body, what attributes would the ELCA have that would make them join ? It is a quite effective strategy.
I like that your church let the laity decide. I wish that had happened here. Even the church president got up staged by the pastor at the meetings with his power point presentations. He just took over. Well it is over now and our town goes on with now 4 Lutheran churches in our community of under 5000.
Got ya beat Lilly: We have 4 and the town is 2200!
I’m from another Wisconsin ELCA congregation going through the same turmoil. Our pastors have abandoned the ELCA to embrace a “Lutheran Orthodoxy” (google orthodox lutheran and be prepared to be terrified.) But I am disgusted with how they have done it. They have suppressed all information to the congregation about the ELCA, will not distribute things unless it is from their point of view, bend the truth and veiled threats of leaving if we don’t vote their way.
Our final vote is in less than a month.
At this point, I don’t know how I will vote. Either to abstain or vote against the measure. At this point I don’t want the building (because that is what this final vote is about: property rights.) I don’t want the name, the new taint that goes with it through town, or the animosity. At this point, I am ready to start fresh with a mission congregation in town. I’m okay with a new name, a new start, and leaving the hatred and intolerance.
What this experience has taught me is a congregation is so much more than a building.
Is it green jello or red jello with bananas? Is it Lutefisk or sauerkraut? I don’t know much about Finnish dishes but as far north as you are, you must have some. I miss the people in the new LCMC church but I don’t miss all the ado about (nothing) something. I’ve only been through Hayward once or twice. Our daughter lived near Superior for a few years and we camped and fished for trout at Perch Lake. You have the Musky museaum there. Now that would make a nice blog- how to get the bones out of the musky. I do hope that all the Hayward Lutherans know how to get together to feed the hungry and clothe the homeless. The economy in a lumbering/tourist area can’t be really good. May you find a common ground to carry out Christ’s work and hopefully our town can continue to also.
@ Kelly, what town are you in, if you don’t mind. And yes, there are broken hearts all the way around on this issue. I sympathize.
@ Lilly, we participate in the Greater Hayward Area Ministerial Assn. Through them, and our Mission Outreach giving, we participate in both food banks, a pregnancy resource center, and a variety of other ministries. Unfortunately, none of the other three Lutheran Churches in town take part in GHAMA. The ELCA congregation is active with the Sal Army, which we also support. When I got to town, I called and reached out to the WELS and LCMS pastors, and never heard back.
We have very few Finns in town. But I lived among them on the West Coast for 10 years.
Wonderful Tony. When I heard you speak I liked your approach. I hope Clintonville LCMC church and soon to be other area LCMC churches will continue to cooperate with the other denominations. The Ecumenical spirit here is found few and far between. I am going to be Ecumenical for a while until I see what is happening in the surrounding area.
Kelly if you are anywhere in NE Wisconsin, maybe the remnants should get together.
@Tony: I’m in Tomah.
The one good thing that has come from this experience is that this has actually brought me closer to members I had never met before. When this all started I felt like I was the only one in my congregation who felt this way. I guess that was by design, because it is easier to steamroll something through if you make it feel like it is a unanimous decision.
My best to you Kelly. I wondered what was happening in that part of the state since I am originally from SW WI. Is this movement widespread over there or just individual churches ? I see that there is a church in LaCrosse that is no longer ELCA .
@Lilly: There’s one other tiny church (I think in Hustler) that is going forward with a vote. The one in La Crosse leaving is not surprising because it has been ELCA in name alone for quite some time.
Kelly, That type of thing has been happening over here too. One in Iola and one in Waupaca are two that were ELCA in name only. If your Tomah church is very big, there is a good chance you gave quite a bit to ELCA benevolences last year. I think it goes by membership. That is really the heart of the issue. The executives in the ELCA make good money and get to fly all over the world. I don’t know the whole story of that but it is a main issue . The gay issue and the CCM are side issues . The gay issue stirs people up. If that helps you decide how to vote, take a good look at your annual report. So far as I am concerned I want the more liberal church .
@Lilly
Lilly,
I think you are struggling with a misconception about benevolences. There is no formula or mandatory or even suggested guidelines for congregational support for the synod. It is analagous to the individual and a congregation. What an individual gives to his congregation is purely voluntary and personal. While good stewardship would encourage a generous and charitable spirit, the decision on personal benevolence to a congregation is up to the member and is not mandatory. The same is true vis a vis congregational benevolence to the synod.
If a congregation balks at synodical benevolence, there is a much less drastic solution than leaving–give less.
Thanks Obie, maybe it is a suggested formula then. People here and in other churches have been placed on inactive lists or even dropped from the church after two years of inactivity. I had heard that it was because the donation to the ELCA was based on membership. Perhaps that was rumor.
If our congregation gave $27,000 to the ELCA last year voluntarily, then it would seem that another sneaky thing is going on to “steal” or funnel the money into some other place. The Clintonville congregation is a fairly wealthy congregation, meaning that there is money in the bank. Interesting.
@Obie,
I predict that that is the next battle in the ELCA. At this point it is strictly voluntary, but the constitution says
C4.03. To fulfill these purposes, this congregation shall:
… g. Motivate its members to provide financial support for the congregation’s ministry and the ministry of other parts of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.
and C6.03. This congregation acknowledges its relationship with the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America in which:
… b. This congregation pledges its financial support and participation in the life and mission of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.
and C8.04. It shall be the privilege and duty of members of this congregation to:
… c. support the work of this congregation, the synod, and the churchwide organization of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America through contributions of their time, abilities, and financial support as biblical stewards.
and *C9.03. Consistent with the faith and practice of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America,
… Every pastor shall:
… 4)endeavor to increase the support given by the congregation to the work of the churchwide organization of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) and of the (insert name of synod) Synod of the ELCA.
(And there is a similar charge to the Congregation Council in C12)
Given the historic lows in giving last year, the massive lay offs at CW (with more to surely come), the cuts that bishops are complaining of having to make, look for pastors and church councils to begin receiving “recommended level of giving” letters as a first step to a more top down system.
But for now, you are correct. It is strictly voluntary.
I got a clarification. At one time apparently and when I was in a previous church, benevolences did go by membership. I had got that information from the church secretary in the previous church some years ago. It was probably ALC then. Last year our church pledged the amount given as determined by the stewardship committee and council.
When my son was taken off the church roles in the late 80’s for non attendance and non giving (He wouldn’t find his envelope to put the money in and he was living in another suburb) I thought that was the reason.
Given the historic lows in giving last year, the massive lay offs at CW (with more to surely come), the cuts that bishops are complaining of having to make, look for pastors and church councils to begin receiving “recommended level of giving” letters as a first step to a more top down system.
But for now, you are correct. It is strictly voluntary.
Yes, synod and CW benevolence is strictly voluntary, but our synod gives annual challenge figures (suggested increases in benevolence)to congregations — and has for years.
FWIW: Lay this conversation (about giving, constitution, etc.) alongside Secretary DS’s interpretation of the ELCA constitution and the conclusion that it’s “impermissible” for a congregation to be dual-rostered. The rationale is that a congregation couldn’t fulfill its relationship with the ELCA if it was also supporting another church body. Anyone remember 1973 in the LC-MS and the demands for doctrinal loyalty? What the ELCA is going through now sounds like the same demand for loyalty, just that the current issue is being measured in dollars rather than doctrinal loyalty.
Agree to disagree, just don’t let it affect the bottom line.
Obie, my concern with this whole gay and lesbian issue is that it is overshadowing things we really should be concerned about. I don’t think the gays or lesbians or transsexuals are going to plant bombs in the subways or blow up the local power stations. When I taught in a suburban school we got a Pakistani family. They were nice people and I enjoyed the boy I taught. However, he had a young uncle and I wondered what are they really doing here? In this town an Albanian family moved in and leased the local restaurant. they are nice people and the food is pretty good. There is a young Arab looking man working in the kitchen. Surely some of these people are refugees but how easy it would be for a family here and a family there to infiltrate middle America and when the time is right—–????? I don’t want to kick these people out of town when they have a right to earn a living. But at the same time a new large electric transfer station was just built north of town. How easy it would be to disrupt our country’s electric grid and really shut us down. The Lutheran ostriches who want to hide behind the gay and lesbian issue and command their people to believe their way better wake up ,get acquainted with those who are in town and work together with all the other churches for the good of mankind or we won’t be here.
The same can be said for the drug issue. Many hispanics live in our town. Who is ministering to them? The whites here hire them because they come cheap.
It is frightening just how many bigots there are out there and I am sure I have a few biases of my own. Watching the History Channel and watching how Hitler got his way, makes me think that at least in some ways history is repeating itself. On our church council, we have a man who has set himself up to judge everyone else in the light of scripture. He was the original WA who got on the call committee to make sure we got a WA pastor. On his list is a topic called poverty where he quotes a scripture from Proverbs inplying that being poor is one’s own fault and being uneducated is one’s own fault. Now wait a minute– how many of Solomon’s slaves had anything to say about their fate? How many of them were literate? If our council member were to check his ancestry, he may find that not too many hundred years ago all the peasants were illiterate and those who were servants weren’t allowed to learn to read and write. When they came to America it probably took them a while to learn English. My German Great Grandmother never learned it. Fortunately, this man also volunteers in many charitable projects but his opinions hurt people. I once said the word “Grace” to him and he just said “Hmph”. He once said he just goes by what he sees on the news. Well —-
the old ALC had a per member donation; the ELCA tries to get churches to think in terms of a tithe, or giving a percentage of our income as a congregation.
of course this is a side issue, but just wanted to bring it up, for Lily’s sake.
by the way, we are not leaving, we haven’t had any big movements of lay people saying that we should leave the ELCA.
Thanks Diane. ALC is where I got that from. Still, a tithe or percentage of a church’s income going to the ELCA can be a bit much for a pastor who would rather have something to say about where the money is spent. I wonder how that is going to work out here and in the area churches that are going LCMC. The church council is making a point to tell members where the benevolences are going but how long will that happen ? Even though some of the Executives in the ELCA are getting good pay checks, I still like the established church with its charities. It might need some auditing but then, every organization needs that.
It’s a paradigm shift, this matter of discerning how to build mission relationships between the congregation and the rest of the church. For those making the shift from ELCA to LCMC, freedom also comes with responsibility, opportunity and risk.
Our congregation is setting up a team approach to look at all current mission and ministry relationships we ave, plus those we could expand into, whether local, state/regional, national or global. The team is also checking into how current mission projects can be even more effective and more multigenerational by involving a larger cross section of the congregation. And, the team will be the lead group for planning the mission festival in the fall. There’s more excitement for mission now that we’re approaching it from this angle. And we’re also battling the myth that if you leave the ELCA you have to leave inter-Lutheran partnerships (LWR, LWF, LSA) behind, too.
@Church Grandma & Grandpa
As a missionary for the ELCA (proudly) it has been quite clear to me and many others that there has been a general movement by many local congregations to give directly to global concerns. It began years ago. For example there has been an explosion in the ELCA companion synod relationship program. Some of these have led to wonderful mission opportunities, relationship and experiences. However, from my experience there are a great deal of problems with that “paradigm.” At times, local congregations (or synods) do not have expertize to interact globally and can make mistakes. For example: (true story) – local congregation donates ice cream makers to a school in an another country. Local congreation is thinking “wonderful locally made treat.” Problem the school did not have refrigeration, ice or fresh cream. However, the school never said anything to the local congreation because they did not want to hurt a donor. Another true story (mine), local congreation did not want money to go via “Chicago” (insert your own “paradigm”)so they tried to send money directly to missionary. They sent a check for $100.00. Local missionary received check and spent $35.00 of own money to have check deposited and waited for two months for it to clear to be used at a kindergarten. Was that efficient, wise use of resources? Although I applaud any congregation that grows in mission and mission support, the local first and suspicion of anything but “larger church” attitude is disappointing and shall I say it — satanic. Who other than evil desires an narrow “paradigm.” One may be free, responsible, see many opportunities and understand the risk, but be on the wrong path.
Thank you Charles, you illustrated the point very well. Our local LCMC is less than 2 months old and right now some in the area are newer. It will take them a while to get organized. Right now it looks like our local one is sending benevolences to obvious places and had a big article in the local paper about all the things they are making to send to Haiti. I do believe this may be through LWR right now. We have a council that mostly changes every year and the way things work here is that it is an almost start over on anything they do because of lack of communication or lack of follow through from the people who started projects.
@Church Grandma & Grandpa
@Church Grandma & Grandpa
I am also a church Grandma and have been a Lutheran for all of my 72 years. I can’t say how things are going all over the country. Your church (is it my church?) has things organized . I am not going to say anything is evil right now because to my feeling the pastor was “gung ho” for LCMC and is letting the congregation figure out the details. This town tends to have a lot of people who don’t like to pay taxes and don’t like to give to the church. I wish the LCMC well because we are giving at another church now and so are a number of other active members. I see a lot being written locally about titheing. There will be a lot of “widow’s coins”.
My former parish recently voted to leave the ELCA after a series of very contentious votes. For members of my new parish, acceptance of gay and lesbian leaders is a non-issue. Nonetheless, it’s still sad to see my old church home go.
Another facet bugs me – LCMC and NALC are still dependent on the ELCA for colleges and seminaries – plus as was memntioned Global Missions – How long do these splinter groups expect the ELCA to continue to fund their students? Their pastors in training??