I’ve taken a little abuse from time to time in the conservative blogosphere over posts on this blog, but the volume got amped up this weekend over my Wisdom from Herb Chilstrom article.
The American Lutheran Publicity Bureau is a pan-Lutheran organization with members from both the ELCA and the Missouri Synod (LCMS). It sponsors the Lutheran Forum and the ALPB Forum online, which is not a blog but a bulletin board forum. Those who register can comment on posts or even initiate a thread, especially under the “Your Turn” category. I don’t spend a lot of time there, but I do occasionally catch a link into my own blog, and I follow it back only to learn how poorly regarded I am by the ALPB folks.
Here’s a clue as to the general attitude of ALPB contributors: An entry entitled “Liturgical boundaries, the role of women” posted yesterday has already received 544 replies and 6,323 views, but an entry entitled “Bragging about an ELCA Church” posted a few days ago has not received a single response, and only 216 folks bothered to read it.
In any case, seems I touched a nerve with my post about Herb Chilstrom’s three questions to those who have departed the ELCA, but certainly not as much as the vitriol directed against Herb himself. For instance, several (including one of three ALPB administrators, Richard Johnson) thought it great sport to joke about Herb’s present position as Director of the Linnaeus Arboretum at Gustavus Adolphus College coupled with Herb’s article comment about being relieved. Johnson’s snarky comment, befitting a Jr High School boy’s toilet humor, was:
Too bad. I’ve always enjoyed that arboretum. He’ll likely end up killing the trees. But he’ll be relieved; fewer to tend to.
Most commenters twisted Bishop Chilstrom’s closing statement. Herb said he was saddened by the departures but also relieved that those remaining could now get on with the mission of the church. Many commenters overlooked the first part of his statement while indicting the latter, including the use of potty humor masquerading as rational discourse. How clever!
Did any actually attempt to answer Bishop Chilstrom’s three questions? Not really.
First, what is it about sex that pushed you over the edge?
Second, why are you organizing new churches?
Third, what will you say to your sons and daughters, sisters and brothers and others in your churches when they tell you they are homosexual?
In particular, the silence in response to his third question spoke eloquent testimony. Ministering to the gays in our midst is not that important to them.
After a week’s worth of Chilstrom bashing, someone identified as “Bergs” brought up my blog yesterday. Bergs has a byline on the ALPB forum, battle for truth, justice & the American way, which is a direct quote from the 50’s Superman TV show. Hmmm. One wonders if Bergs can leap tall buildings in a single bound.
Thanks to Bergs’ link to my blog, my article and my psychological shortcomings and even my wretched novel became the grist for ALPB for the next few pages of comments.
the blogist is into power and control.
Said one, and another added,
by [his] own theory, [he is a member] of the “privileged class” … a convenient diversion. It helps the blogger to not deal with a stark reality: His views are not universally accepted and acclaimed as right.
It’s all true. I seek a power base as an alternate lay delegate to the next Church Wide Assembly, and my views are definitely not accepted by those who regularly follow the ALPB forum.
A Pastor Charlton reminded the others that I was the author of a novel, but I didn’t receive the recognition for the brilliance I thought I deserved. That’s true, too. Awhile ago, a friend joked that the best publicity the novel could receive would be criticism from an esteemed conservative such as Charles Dobson of Focus on the Family fame. Ah, pastor Charlton, if only you were someone of such import; nevertheless, I would be pleased to have you do a book review—please order your copy here and then you can make informed comments about the novel after you read it.
The same Pastor Charlton also suggested that Bishop Chilstrom and I each derived our foundational ideology from Karl Marx.
Another openly wondered whether my criticisms of CORE, LCMC, and WordAlone were really self-projections. Charlton again chimed in, suggesting that I have “died to my whiteness”, and I am therefore an honorary person of color. I guess he could say, I’ve “died to my straightness”, and I’m therefore an honorary gay.
The blog roll of Otagosh of New Zealand includes a special category, Blogs I love to hate, consisting of two bloggers, including the pompous Paul McCain of the LCMS who loves to trash the ELCA, as well as any vestiges of moderation in his own denomination. He is the Rush Limbaugh of Lutherandom. McCain wades into the Chilstrom thread with the following piece of brilliance, although he refers to current Bishop Hanson and not retired Bishop Chilstrom (blowhards never miss an opportunity to say their piece even if it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand):
the pious clap-trap he continues to mouth as front-man for the left-wing, liberal, homosexual and feminist agendas that have taken control of the ELCA and the other large state churches in Europe.
Lest I give the impression that everyone over at ALPB Forum is a boogeyman, Pastor Charles Austin had the last word (as I write this on Monday evening—I’m sure there will be plenty more venom to come). As the lone voice crying in the wilderness, Pastor Austin had earlier defended Bishop Chilstrom and me, and he wrapped up the thread with this response to McCain.
keep on predicting and praying for an apocalypse in international Lutheran relations, for doom and gloom is the coin of your realm and you obviously seek riches.
Some of us have greater hopes for partnership in the Gospel and greater trust in the fellowship of believers granted not by your permission or with your approval, but by the Holy Spirit.
Although McCain may be the most outspoken and outrageous of the naysayers, why is it that some persist in cheerleading the troubles of the ELCA? Pastor Austin’s initial response to the thread raises the best question:
So those who disagree with the ELCA can call our leaders liars and political operatives, accuse them of abandoning the Bible, and worse; but a relatively mild editorial such as the one in question gets people upset?
I don’t get it.
Thank you for your leadership, Obie, and for standing up to the arrow slinging, narrow minded hate-wingers.
There’s a lot of hypocracy over there. And down right meanness. But God forbid anybody cricitize them.
Obie, I would rather be called an “honorary gay” and stand in solidarity than be lumped with the homophobic hate mongers any day. Wear it like a badge of honor. (Which I have a feeling you already do 🙂 )
That said, they hypocrisy from these bullies is mindblowing. Oh sure, claim scriptural authority (ie, the I’m big, you’re small. I’m right, you’re wrong school of thought) and bully anyone you don’t agree with. Yet it is nothing short of dramatic pearl-clutching when the table is turned and they are scrutinized.
The hypocritically sanctimonious tend to drive me nuts.
And in a more positive note, @Pr. Joelle: your letter at Pretty Good Lutherans really hit home to me. Now that my congregation is healing as a SAWC, I hope you too are able to find a home soon as well. That said, there are a lot of SAWCs that are forming with supply pastors. I know once we’re up and running our congregation, like many in the Midwest, will be looking for STRONG leaders like yourself to lead us in the next chapter of the ELCA’s wonderful story. Prayers to you during this difficult time. *hugs*
“South Pacific” is touring the country again. PBS also featured it. I like the song “You’ve got to be taught before its too late to hate all the people your relatives hate. You’ve got to be carefully taught.” I am sure that some of the racism we have is backlash to 911 and our fear that the world is not the way we would like it . The gay racism has been here a while and will stay. But what is Jesus going to say to the Lutheran Pharisees when they see HIM face to face.
I am extremely discouraged at the snide tone of debate in recent years, and at the absolute violence some people seem to feel toward those who hold different views. I often wonder if they understand what pain they inflict, and nearly as often wonder if that is not what they intend. There is little grace and peace to be had lately. Nonetheless, grace to you, and peace, as well as strength and courage.
Obie, just keep up the good work.
@Lilly
Amen.
@Lilly
This comment will probably earn me some of the same sort of scorn on this astute forum that Obie received over at ALPB, but …
It is not hate or racism to say that I cannot call blessed that which Scripture calls sin.
Blessings TS
@Tony Stoutenburg
“that which Scripture calls sin”
And therein lies the rub. Many astute scholars disagree with your basic premise. Don’t simply assume that your understanding of Scripture is the only possible interpretation.
@Obie Holmen
“Don’t simply assume that your understanding of Scripture is the only possible interpretation.”
But don’t you? That is what makes the conversation so difficult.
@Lilly
Actually, Lilly, the last literature I read (2 years ago or so) indicate that the presence of a genetic marker for homosexuality is still speculative, lacking hard evidence. The Nature vs Nurture debate still continues.
“Of course scripture does speak to some of these things but not very scientifically.” Of course not. But what is Authoritative? Scripture or Science?
@Tony Stoutenburg
Yes, we both think we have the correct interpretation of Scripture. What rubs me is the presumptiousness of some that there can no differences of opinion. It is also problematic that many folks assume the Bible says certain things or speaks to certain issues when careful exegisis says otherwise.
“Scripture or Science?” I don’t think it is either-or. I think it is both-and. But, to disregard current scientific findings is unwise and more than a bit ostrich-like. Moral discernment is not subject to a rigid formula, but scripture, reason, experience, and tradition should all be influences (Wesleyan quadrilateral). The reformation discussion of Sola Scriptura must be understood in the context of debates with an all powerful church that claimed itself and its traditions as solely authoritative. Even Luther acknowledged that Scripture and reason should inform conscience. The very concept of conscience implies a deeper process of discernment than merely checking a book of rules. Moral discernment is not as simple as looking up a recipe in a moral cookbook, and the Bible certainly is not that.
I wonder how those who post such venom on ALPB imagine that they are advancing God’s kingdom.
Luther said “Scripture and sound reason.” The Wesleyan formula which includes experience opens the door to Pentecostal / Holiness movement theologies, and is not Lutheran. Our experiences are simply not valid for asserting truth. If even our righteous deeds are nothing more than filthy rags**, where do you think our experiences stack up as valid before the Holy One?
I am not a rigid on some of these exegetical interpretations as many. I really don’t care about Leviticus, except for Second Use. And I will even give you I Corinthians 6:9 as I do not think we can do what many Bible translations do not know that we can do what many versions do with those Greek words. But Romans 1 is really not subject to “sound reason” that validates it, as I see it.
And yes, I know that you see it differently.
Blessings
TS
** If you want a more graphic and literal translation of Is 64:6, click here, but be warned, it is graphic. http://thewiredchristian.com/?p=11&akst_action=share-this
@Brant
I wonder that myself.
@Tony Stoutenburg
Well Tony,where does that put the Lutheran Charismatics that have joined LCMC. When I was a “Jesus freak” a lot was being borrowed from other Pentacostals. I settled into a quieter walk because I didn’t want to follow their “holiness “code.
@Tony Stoutenburg
I came across a good little basic website that gives a good basic understanding of DNA and genetics. I recommend it to anyone who really doesn’t understand this stuff. The study of DNA is a relatively recent concept in biology. Just how it mutates or changes is being studied but not completely understood as yet. Science or Scripture ??? It isn’t either/or. Science explains some things in nature. Scripture explains some things of faith. When the Bible was written down, it is my understanding that God used people to write it and these people wrote it down as they understood it. But I better be carefull what I say or I might fall off the edge of the earth 😀
@Tony Stoutenburg
I read your ” graphic” reference and as a woman , I almost laughed. Do you realize that women in Bible days were considered unclean and had to be isolated during their time of the month ? There is a Christian book out there titled “The Red Tent ” . As one who was or is Lutheran but not sure which kind yet, I do believe that we are only made righteous by Jesus Christ and that being human, there is no way we can overcome our human frailty. I am also wondering if there isn’t some “works righteousness” even in our practice of weekly communion- confession and forgiveness. God asks us as redeemed Children of God to reach out to the less fortunate, the sick, the hurt, the wounded- physically and emotionally and be His hands. This is not works rightousness but it is the right thing to do. Blessings on you–Go and sin no more – if you can.
@Lilly, just a correction re: the Red Tent. It is not a Christian book, but was written by a Jewish feminist.
@Diane Roth
Thanks Diane.