I just received the latest email from the office of the ELCA secretary. The numbers show a definite decrease in activity in December, probably reflecting the holiday season. Bottom line: through the end of 2010, a total of 353 congregations had voted twice to sever ties with the ELCA (as required by constitution). Out of 10,500 or so.
Here is the email:
Here’s the update on congregations that have taken votes to leave the ELCA. As of 1/6/11, 686 congregations had taken first votes to leave the ELCA. These 686 congregations have taken a total of 726 first votes. (The greater number reflects that some congregations have taken multiple first votes.) Of the first votes taken, 504 passed and 222 failed. 351 congregations have taken second votes (and two congregations have taken two second votes!) Of the total of 353 second votes; 334 passed and 19 failed.
So, how do you feel about that? In the New England Synod, through which I have my candidacy, the 2009 decisions have created barely a ripple. I’m on internship in WV and here it’s been a huge issue.
Obie, do you know how many people belong to those 334 congregations? As you know, congregations vary greatly in size of membership. Robert at bioethike.com
In this area, things are looking up. The small ELCA group seems to be getting support from the synod as is a neighboring church.
@Ivy
@Robert
Ivy,
You ask, “how do you feel about that?” As you cruise around my blog, you will see that I have been an ardent pro-ELCA and pro-CWA09 resolutions supporter. This has been a painful time for the ELCA, to be sure, and each congregation that departs will be missed. On the other hand, there has not been the “reconfiguration of North American Lutheranism” that Lutheran Core/NALC boasted.
I think that phenomenon of “spottiness” is characteristic from synod to synod as well as within synods. Although there are some very large metro congregations that have departed, there is also a preponderance of small, rural congregations. Northfield, Mn (home of St Olaf), has three, large ELCA congregations where the issue has been a non-issue. For instance, my congregation of 1200-1300 has had 5 persons leave (and one of these continues to participate in the men’s group). Often, the biggest factor is pastoral leadership. While there are many exceptions, most congregations that have departed have been led out by their clergy.
Robert,
I do not have such figures. As Pastor Jeff (a regular commenter here) would point out, there have been many individuals who have departed even though their congregation has not. On the other hand, of the congregations that have departed, many members have switched to nearby ELCA churches or started a Synodically Authorized Worshiping Community (SAWC or “saucy congregation”), which are often small but filled with a “can-do” spirit.
“Most congregations that have departed have been led out by their clergy.”
That certainly “was” the case in my former church, which a year ago took the initial vote to withdraw and completed the process in September. While many may have had philosophical issues with CWA09, MOST probably could have lived with the changes were it not for a quid pro quo from the pastor–either leave the ELCA, or find a new minister. It was a sad time for me personally as I said good-bye to church friends of many years, but the welcome I received in my new (ELCA) church home has helped.
@Obie Holmen
Northfield had four congregations. The newest (Rejoice! Lutheran) left the ELCA and and joined Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ (LCMC) in 2010.
@Pastor Cary
You are correct.
Although Rejoice received startup mission funds from the ELCA (which they claim have been repaid to the extent of their legal obligation), it was clear from the beginning that this congregation had greater fidelity to non-Lutheran organizations such as the International Transformation Network (ITN) and Harvest Evangelism, prosperity-gospel-proclaiming entities that have ties to the “kill the gay” legislation in Uganda. Rejoice has also been controversial locally due to their attempt to exert influence on local government and due to their purchase and use (some allege misuse) of a historic church building.
Thanks for pointing out that this congregation has found a home in Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ (LCMC).
While I have been attending but not joining the UCC church, the little SAWC has become A CHURCH and the tiny group is working together to have their own rented space and carry on the mission of the wider church body. I am liking what I am hearing and am looking at all the directions in the old ELCA women’s group books to see how to make quilts and the other great LWR projects. I encourage my husband to join the UCC church where he was baptized and confirmed and I will probably go there with him sometimes but there are too many good Lutheran service projects to give up and I do miss giving to ELCA World Hunger. The UCC has some good projects going too but at my age my feet and back are giving out . I think I can still sit down and sew. Yes, I could go back to the LCMC church, but I don’t think I want to . It is time that bigotry gets put in its place.
@Obie Holmen
Where do you sign up for this information? I was looking on the ELCA’s website for this and couldn’t find it…is it well hidden?
@Daniel
I’m not sure it is posted on the website. I get the info by requesting it from the ELCA secretary’s office.
@Lilly
It’s been really interesting to read about your journey after your church left the ELCA. I bet the little ELCA church in your town will be happy to see you (and your sewing skills) again!
In the end, it will be a 15-25% departure of members through 2012-13, similar to the exodus from LCMS in the seventies. Many of the three hundred plus who have left are substantial congregations-rough estimate of 300,000 total membership loss to date. This doesn’t include stats we will just start to get this year of those who have left, split congregations, etc.
I won’t be commenting (unless asked) anymore as I have left the ELCA it is now time to move on and look forward. I wish all well, both those in ELCA and those who have left. We committed over a year ago to speak well of all and continue to do so, while disagreeing.
@Ann
Thanks Ann. I sometimes wonder how this is coming across to others but lately , I have been more content. Since the synod has signed the lease for the new space, I feel a new hope among the LCMC drop outs . Some of them didn’t really realize that their church had left them, not the other way around.
SAWC…Obie, just wanted to let you know that our SAWC is chartering this weekend! We’re dropping the SAWC and want to get everything in order so that we can be accepted as a full-blown congregation at the June 2011 Synod Assembly. Even starting to outgrow our rented space and we are actively looking for property to create a new sanctuary.
Needless to say, VERY excited about this weekend. All things happen for a reason, and there will definitely be a sense of renewal in Tomah this weekend!
@Jeff
And also with you.
@Kelly
How exciting!
I thought about you a few times this fall as I traveled I-90. Next time I’m going that way, I’ll try to get in touch for coffee.
@Kelly
Congratulations on the new church. Our SAWC has a good place to meet now. The synod did a 2 year lease. I hope we can grow like your church has.
I attended service at Faith Lutheran Chapel in Clintonville today. We renewed our bapitism and great fellowship after the service. We are small but growing.
I read a post here from a gentlemen who spoke of two congregations leaving the ELCA from Hutchinson. (He tried to get them to split church buildings & I now can’t find his post.) One of the pastors at Hutchinson is helping to lead some of his former flock from another city by “educating us on how the ELCA is deviating from being Lutheran”. How do we counter this influence? Many people I talk to are confused by their rhetoric of “education”, but they have an end-agenda. If you engage them in a lengthly discussion, it always goes back to the same-sex vote. Any suggestions?
@Betty
Betty, I think the best way is to have the facts and tell people that so far as you are concerned this whole thing will blow over in a year or two. Look up the sites for the Reconciling in Christ ELCA churches and compare them to the number of GLBTQ pastors and see if the statistics show that there is anything for the average gay basher to really worry about. The Word Alone people- LCMC and NALC became a powerful political force in the church. They didn’t get their way so they are forcing it with politcal rhetoric that the average church member doesn’t realize is really a form of propaganda. One can quote scripture and twist scripture but so did the devil. I am about to rejoin the ELCA in the little chapel here in Clintonville. If we get any gay members, I guess we will put them to work. We are all sinners in the eyes of a perfect God. But God is a forgiving God and all of us will have to answer on the day of judgement- even LCMC and NALC pastors.
@Betty
Betty, also realize that this whole split goes back to when the ALC and LCA became the ELCA. Some people were never comfortable with that. Then when the ELCA entered into pulpit and altar fellowship with other churches, that was too much for many of the older members and ministers. So this split started before the gay issue. Then we get the issue of interpretation of scripture. We had the part in Matthew today where Jesus is spelling out what sin is in the eyes of God. Are we to pluck out our eyes and cut off our hands ?
Many today feel that the Bible has truth but is was not literally written by God. They believe it was written down by people of faith as they understood the world and the faith in their day. Does Jewish Biblical law apply to Gentiles ? If you haven’t aligned with a group favoring the ELCA and you want to– don’t try to explain the differences- just follow your heart.
Obie,
I believe the reconfiguration that Lutheran Core/NALC “boasted” about, as you accuse them of, was not in any way predicting the downfall of the ELCA, but rather predicting that LCMC and NALC will be a substatial place “in between” the liberal ELCA and the conservative LCMS, and that this option will be a challenge for the ELCA. To deny that is has and continues to do so is just plain naive.
@Betty
I know all of the pastors from Hutchinson who’s congregations recently departed the ELCA. Betty I assure you, in spite of what anything you might read on this forum, none of them would speak at any church if not previously asked. And in spite of Lilly’s baseless accusations, they will not come twisting scripture, forcing political rhetoric or utilizing propaganda. (I love how she tells you to go to the Reconciling in Christ web-site and then condemns Word Alone, Lutheran Core, LCMC, NALC for having their own biases; as if RIC is a bastion of objectivity.) They will simply come with facts. They will tell you what it is about the ELCA that they find troubling and yes, they will use scripture (Not twisting it as Lilly accuses them of ) to back up their claims. They will answer any questions and have a great deal of written information available. They will not recommend any particular course of action. They will leave that to the congregation. And, in spite of what Lilly might think, they are not “gay-bashers.” FWIW, my advice would be to listen to them objectively. Based on your comment, my guess is that they are not going to change your mind, but you will gain some insight into where they are coming from. And more importantly you will gain insight into where those who invited them to speak are coming from. And that will only improve the dialogue you have with them. Stop seeing there presence as something to counter. At the very least, recognize that Lilly’s advice to simply say that you think the whole thing is going to blow over in a couple years, is not good advice at all. Either of the pastors from Hutch will have a response for that, and it will not involve scripture-twisting or propaganda.
@Steve67
Oh, if it were so.
Lilly, Kelly, Mike, Ann and others who have complained here about the tactics of the naysayers have done so based upon their own experiences in their own congregations. On another local blog here in Northfield, I came face to face with lies that included “the vote came late at night as a surprise to most of the delegates who had already left for the day.” Elsewhere on this blog, I have commented on the lies that have come from the leadership of the dissident groups. See prior posts about Nestingen’s whoppers (for instance, “gay advocates were bussed in and physically intimidated the voting members”) and the rants of a drama queen (WordAlone president Jaynan Clark). It is also telling that the mission field for the dissident groups is nothing more than ELCA congregations, which is “sheep stealing” on a massive scale.
@Steve67
Steve, you have a right to your opinion and I have a right to mine. I think there is still freedom of speech in this country, unless that doesn’t apply to the church. The comments I made had a lot of do with happened in my former church and may not apply everywhere. However, I have noted how easily the churches in my area have picked up on the gay issue and are worried sick that they will be forced to have a gay pastor. Generally, this came from a few hotheads in each church who talked the loudest. I am now attending an ELCA SAWC and am hoping that it will succeed without people throwing verbal stones at each other anymore. My husband is attending the UCC church now and I go with him sometimes. They have survived the gay crisis and generally it is behind them. So far as I am concerned, yes, the ELCA allows gay clery in committed relationships. However, that does not mean there are enough of them to populate all the pulpits. If that happens , we still have some choices.
@Steve67
One has to wonder if such speakers share their thoughts on what troubles them about the NACL and LCMC. Being human institutions, like it or not, there are things that are not perfect. Can these objective people see the faults of their own and unbiasedly give testament to that as they unbiasedly give testament to the faults of the ELCA?
I have family in churches that have left the ELCA for NALC and LCMC over the past year. The church in which I was baptized and confirmed is one of them. People in those churches were led by representatives of LCMC and NALC to believe that they would be forced to accept gay pastors and gay marriages in their churches. They were subjected to harangues from their pastors – the church newsletter in one church where I have family was filled for months with page after page of diatribes from the pastor against the ELCA. These are issues of scriptural interpretation on which good people can differ – they are not issues of CORE presenting “facts” while the ELCA lies. I also agree with Obie that this is sheep stealing, and that these pastors who travel the Midwest selling CORE/NALC probably have more pressing business to attend to.
My relatives who stayed with the churches that left complain about the poor quality of the publications that LCMC and NALC put out. They are seeing money that once went to Bible camps, mission work, and to the needy being redirected to the overtly political work of CORE and Word Alone. My relatives who left the churches are sincerely suffering – my great-great grandparents were among the founders of the church where I grew up, and my family is leaving behind the church where generations of my family were baptized, confirmed, married, and buried. I honestly have lost patience with the proponents of CORE. They bring out and exploit the very worst in people.
@Steve67
I know the pastors from the Hutchinson church too, one for over 15 years. While they may not speak at a church unless asked, they do keep up with active emails to their former congregational members. They do have their “ELCA facts”, which many have been proven to be untrue. They don’t have to outwordly recommend a course of action, it is all on the WordAlone web site.
@Bobby
While we are coming to another annual meeting, I am looking for help & answers again. Bobby, thank you for your response of May 19th. You are dead-on. While I said the Hutchinson pastor was helping his former flock members, I never said he was speaking in person. As Bobby says, he keeps in contact with former members via an active e-mails. And Bobby, is correct, too, you only have to look at their website for their recommendations. An LCMC pastor recently told another whopper to his former flock about what Luther Sem was (or wasn’t) teaching. I wrote directly to the President of Luther Sem and found out these were more “false” statements being made. If people want to leave the ELCA, that is their business, but I don’t understand why or how they feel they need to drag everyone thru all of this.
And so the fight goes on between those who must interpret the Bible literally and those who have realized the historical roots of the Bible. I find the historical roots facinating and find that they do include a very loving Jesus.
Our ELCA SAWC is slowly growing in this conservative town. We just had our annual meeting. We are happy about the way things are going with 4 confirmation students and a good group of kids in Wednesday Bible school. We need to work on stewardship and see if we can raise some additional money so that we can become self sufficient in the next year. Thank you to all the churches who have helped Faith in Clintonville get off to a good start. Please keep us in your prayers.