Here is the content of the email received from the office of ELCA Secretary for February figures:
As of 2/4/11, 716 congregations had taken first votes to leave the ELCA. These 716 congregations have taken a total of 759 first votes. (As you know, the greater number reflects that some congregations have taken multiple first votes.) Of the first votes taken, 532 passed and 227 failed. There have been 395 second votes — 375 passed and 20 failed.
Here is the corresponding statement for March:
As of March 3, 2011, 743 congregations have taken first votes to leave the ELCA. These 743 congregations have taken a total of 791 first votes. Of the first votes taken, 551 passed and 240 failed. There have been 437 second votes; 414 passed and 23 failed.
Obie-
I have not honestly been keeping up with the numbers, votes, etc. In your opinion is the amount of votes declining, maintaining, increasing? On another note, I noticed that you mentioned that the mission field for NALC/LCMC is simply former ELCA members. While there is no doubt that this is by and large true, I wanted to make you aware of a blog post written by Pastor Steve Perkins who began a new LCMC church (Northgate Church) in Ramsey, MN. He says in his post that since December he is aware of 7-8 people who have made first time committments for Christ. In my former church that left the ELCA, they have also seen a spike in people making first time commitments for Christ. Whatever acronym our churches belong to, we should ALL Praise God for this news!
Here is the link to the aforementioned blog: http://ngatechurch.wordpress.com/
The post is Church “Growth.”
Blessings,
Stephen Johansson
It does look sad that some congregations are choosing to sever ties and that number continues to rise. Like Stephen, I would be interested in knowing if this number is increasing, remaining steady, or decreasing. Perhaps as a percentage would show us an even better picture.
Looking away from the bad, it would also be interesting to see how many congregations have entered the ELCA because of the CWA09 decision and how many were readmitted. It would also be interesting to see how many congregations entered despite the decision since then.
The figure 413 reflects just slightly less than 4% than the 10,500 congregations that the ELCA has/had. That number is smaller than the Episcopalian exodus a few years back. Not saying numbers are the chief issue of concern – just pointing it out.
Someone named David Barnhart has a blog with almost every congregation that has voted, listed by state and by first/second vote status. It does seem to me that fewer congregations are taking first votes, but they may also be waiting until Lent is over.
This is an interesting study. LCMC has different figures than ELCA dropouts which could mean that there are still some churches that belong to both or haven’t completed the discerning whether to leave or not. This could mean that there will be a trickle of churches leaving over the next years. That is nothing new. Nor is it anything to be feared. I see in my community, a renewal of interest in the church from both sides. The LCMC church is growing with relatives and friends of people who are long time members of the church. The little SAWC has potential too . The LCMC church has an advantage though because a few years ago they introduced rotational Sunday School and it is running strong. But our SAWC has a committed teacher and the potential for more. The kids are excited and very much part of the church. The family feel of the SAWC is something lost in a thousand member church but the big church has the advantage of the things that are in place and only need fine tuning. I think there is a place for all.
I know in my Synod, there were 2 congregations that took first votes and both failed with no talk of doing another one. There were 3 congregations that took votes months ago, but due to being part of the ALC needed Council’s approval, so they didn’t officially leave until last month. I am sure we are not the only Synod with those types of congregations. The sad thing is that 2 of the 3 congregations are led by the same pastor who has been their pastor for 50 years! The other one is in the same town, but went independent. All three worshipped under 20.
The other sad news is that one of the congregations that left our Synod was an authorized worshipping community for African immigrants. No one in the Synod knows what happened to the pastor or the congregation, no one knows if they are worshipping anymore, whether the pastor is still pastoring, etc. Sadly, I think they have disbanded due to the ELCA being their main support for years.
@Justin
A few or several years ago, the ELCA was trying to start a mission congregation on the south side of Waukesha Wi. A pastor that I knew was starting it. The ELCA withdrew their support after 2 years apparently because the people in the mission church weren’t able to support it. The pastor and her also ELCA pastor husband felt that the ELCA hadn’t given them enough time. They both left the ELCA very disappointed with the outcome. While the ELCA has a lot to offer, these things can happen and mission churches need to know that they have to be able to support themselves after a time. In the case of the Waukesha church, I felt they were competing with a mega-church evangelical church in the same general area.
@Justin
Just thought I should correct some misinformation here. The two congregations that left with the same pastor from your synod are now both NALC congregations. The former ELCA pastor that left with them is the pastor for just one of the congregations. The second congregation now has an intentional interim from the NALC. The third congregation in the same town is no longer independent but has joined LCMC and is reviewing applicants for their pastor position. All three are worshipping well over 20 (don’t know where you got that number from?). The LCMC congregation is worshipping 40 people on any given Sunday with as many as 60 different congregants. The two new NALC congregations also have well over 20 as they were previously a dual parish with 100 congregants and now are two seperate churches with approximately 50 people in each.
The former ELCA worship community of African refugees known as Nile Lutheran Mission is alive and well! They are now called Nile Evangelical Church with Pastor Nestory and have joined NALC. They are worshipping in a new location in Rochester. They are being supported by the LCMC congregation (as well as by others) and just recently visited the LCMC congregation to show their appreciation.
So don’t be sad! But give thanks that former congregations can still grow and survive even if they are not part of the ELCA and are following their bound conscience.
@Rich Thank you for the information. As I have written on my blog many a day, I understand when people want to leave and want them to succeed because they are just following a different path, but the path leads to Christ as well, so I do give thanks. So, no need for the bound conscious defense statement.
I do still worry because the Nile Evangelical Church has a different pastor than when they started. I care very deeply for them and helped support them not only financially, but also with time. In fact, their ship logo, which may be gone now, came from our church. Glad the people are being served either way, but hoping that Jordan is doing well.
Glad to hear the churches in Lyons are doing well as well. I remember one had an average worship attendance of 30 (as it is still on the ELCA’s website), even though the membership rolls were larger. Sorry for the misinformation, it wasn’t meant to be misleading, just brain misfire.
The original point I had though was based around the March numbers and that here are three congregations (not the Nile Ministry) that had taken their second vote months ago, but didn’t get approved till last month (I was part of the process) and I was wondering how many of the new ELCA leaves were in the same type of boat, waiting for a Synod Council to approve.
I don’t think we will have any idea of total numbers until the 2012 and 2013 annual reports. Reason being is that those will include where the real damage is being done, in split congregations, those who have had members just walk, etc.
When all is said and done, the ELCA will lose 15-20% of it’s total membership, maybe slightly more or less, and will continue to do mission and ministry, as will NALC and LCMC. If I were in the ELCA leadership, I would at some point stop reporting these numbers and simply include them in the annual statistics.
As many have said all along, it is not just the churches voting to leave, but members who have left and churches split on this issue or withdrawn in everything but name only from ELCA. THat is why the numbers won’t be known until next year at the earliest.
I was visiting friends in the Appleton area. They go to an ELCA church that is aging. They have had to cut the pastor back to 3/4 time. Their own children work in other cities. It is sad because these friends were charter members of their church when they started it 45-50 years ago. It is in the heart of a populated area. Could it be that they are not very welcoming to new members coming in ?
I agree – but I suppose people are asking for these figures right now. I would think that the two-year anniversary -i.e. August 2011 – would be a good point to quit reporting the figures though…at that point, it becomes a question of whether these churches are still leaving because of the CWA09 decision or if they are just leaving. Churches did leave the ELCA before CWA09 as well.
We had a recent vote, in Byron Minnesota. Christ Lutheran Church, ELCA. Literally, by one vote (I left half way through) our congregation decided to partially embrace with the ELCA’s new direction. Those who did vote, decided to stay with the ELCA regardless of any outcome.
Despite this, the church is now a mere fraction of its previous size. Giving is at an epic low, and the current interim pastor is meant as a punishment to our “troubled” church. The ELCA refuse to give us a comprehensive list of prospective pastors. The mouthpieces for the ELCA say we are now a “new, smaller church”. Albeit one that has very little giving, less attendance and less time offered by fewer active participants. Gone are time, talent and tithe. Is this the direction that the ELCA envisioned? Is this what awaits believers?
Apparently the anguish goes on. But in the meantime, if members want a church they have to pay what they can to sustain it. While $$$$ should not be the basis of a church, how does one pay the pastor, janitor, organist, heat and light bill if there is no money. I hope your church will reorganize itself and be able to come out as a renewed church. Yes , this is a hard time for Lutheran Churches. I have been attending the ELCA new mission church here and the joy and fellowship is wonderful. It isn’t about that we “always did it this way” but that we are a new creation being led into discipleship with and for Jesus Christ. Take this thought and go forward.
Having been immersed in the Lutheran expression of the church since birth — and as the son of parents who were both called and ordained Lutheran ministers — and having also been active in WordAlone, it’s my observation that the point of departure within the church has been the willingness to cut all ties to our faith heritage. The ELCA has done the cutting, forcing orthodox believers to choose whether to sacrifice the truth for false teaching.
Mr. Hadley,
The key terminology in your comment is “faith heritage”, which I think is a very convenient euphemism for an outmoded, debunked, and exclusionary interpretation that borders on biblicism.
Oh, Obie, would it surprise you that I disagree? LOL.
But the reason I am taking time to post is that in a couple of recent conversations, I am seeing a new thread of dissent. At a recent meeting where I had been invited to speak, for instance, a table of folks who seemed to me to be in agreement with the “09 decisions” were nonetheless disturbed by the claims being made by the synod that the constitution of the ELCA and the synod trump those of the congregation. Specifically, a claim that if the ELCA CWA changes the process for leaving at the ’11 CWA, that the congregations will be bound to the decisions made in Orlando, whether they ascent to them or not. (I am not a lawyer though I have played one onstage. However, I find this a dubious claim, legally.)
Now it is possible that this is a “convenient euphemism” for the sexuality decisions, but, as I said, in at least this one case,these folks did not seem to me to be troubled by that.
Now I know that we have been back and forth on here about “power.” And certainly the traditionalists / congregationalists are vulnerable to that charge; but in fairness, so are the progressives / pro-churchwide side.
The better question might be, which one is faithful to a Lutheran understanding of the Church AND most effective in the 21st Century?
The proposed changes to the process of how a congregation disaffiliates with the ELCA really don’t seem that arduous. Essentially, the idea is that the process is improved if everyone in a given congregation is given sufficient opportunity to take part in the process. Also, since CWA09, there has been a whole lot of erroneous information about policy being repeated in many congregations. The proposed changes help to protect members of congregations from receiving information from only a narrow range of sources. This can only lead to better decisions, no matter which way those decisions go.
@Tim Fisher
Thanks for the clarification, Tim.
Tony, this is not directed at you because you strike me as fair-minded and reasonable, but there is an element of birtherism in some of the misinformation that is out there. On a local blog here in Northfield, a member of a departing ELCA congregation wrote that the bishop surprised everyone at CWA09 by bringing up the vote on Friday night after most of the delegates had departed. When I confronted him with this misinformation by suggesting that I was there, his response was that he had heard from a reliable source and he chose to believe that person rather than me. As with birtherism, sometimes the facts just don’t matter when they get in the way of one’s opinion.
@Tim Fisher
Tim,
I have had more than one person contact me with a cry for help, stating that their pastor was leading their congregation out of the ELCA and wouldn’t let any pro-ELCA speakers be heard. Isolated incidents, perhaps, but the revised policies would lessen the potential for such abuse.
@Tony Stoutenburg
Hi Tony, It is interesting where all this rhetoric is going. Here in Clintonville, among those of us who are forming a new church, there is little being said about the CWA9 decisions of the ELCA and more is being said about the personalities in the LCMC church that we don’t want to go back to right now. The LCMC church – that you know about – has a number of families who grew up in the LCMS and were very ready to go back to the literal interpretations of the Bible that they grew up with. I was leading a woman’s Bible study and discovered that they would not even allow that God could have used a natural phenomonon to part the Red Sea. I finally left that group and congregation and while I miss the people socially, I don’t miss the narrow mindedness of a number of the people in the congregation. They finally ousted the church secretary who , though being “liberal” was doing a decent job of taking care of the office.
Closure- I have officially joined little ELCA Faith Lutheran Chapel in Clintonville. I feel this is closure for a year + of floating around to churches and trying to decide what to do. It is exciting to be part of a new church congregation and will do whatever I can at my age to help the group grow.
@Jasper
The collective “ELCA” are not the people assigning you interim candidates or the ones with the list of pastoral candidates. That is the Synod’s responsibility. The pool of good pastors for rural southeastern or southwestern Minnesota isn’t the biggest. Unfortunately, interim’s are not always a good fit for a church and it does seem like punishment.
Faith Lutheran Chapel is entering another phase now. Some of our members went to the synod assembly Friday where the church had special recognition by the synod. We will now have a half time pastor to help us organize and grow. I am excited that his first Sunday will be Pentacost.
Just found this web site and read some of the input with interest. I am no Biblical Scholar no9r even an authority on scripture. I believe discussing all these fine points is wonderful so long as we don’t become buried and can stay focused on the real point our mission I’m not so certain that Jesus arising from the left side or the right side of the bed is real important except for a debating exercise. The Christian Church has m’s of years of converesions, some of which we are not real proud plus we practice selective adherance to Bibical commands, some because they just don’t apply any more, some because we live in a different time and the rest because we select them to meet our needs